In the previous issue of Alice Lovers Magazine, Sisyphus Mann wrote an article, “Virtue and Virulence: the politics of the pedosphere”. It was harshly critical of Virtuous Pedophiles (VP) in many respects and includes some completely false assertions. In this article I would like to set the record straight.

Mann sees the primary divide in the world as between VP and its allies (“ VirPeds”) and Radical Pedophiles (“RadPeds”).

We at VP think in broader terms. The two key groups are the ordinary people (“nons”) and MAPs (Minor-Attracted Persons, a newer phrase preferred by many pedophiles). RadPeds represent an important MAP viewpoint of the world, but it is very much secondary to our thinking.

Our name itself has shown these different perceptions. The public thinks all pedophiles molest children. Nick and I, co-founders of VP, chose “Virtuous Pedophiles” to disrupt that view. “Virtuous Pedophiles” does it in just two words.

Many RadPeds reacted with outrage by assuming that we must be contrasting ourselves with them, the non-virtuous. This is not at all true. If we consider now how RadPeds fit into our divide, we would say that they qualify as “virtuous” if they do not engage with children sexually in society as it exists today. Hopes for changes in a society’s view of pedophilia’s future don’t enter into this.

Last year the co-founders of Virtuous Pedophiles wrote a brief history of the group. Below is an edited, shorter version. To understand VP, read how we think about ourselves when we’re not choosing to focus on RadPeds.

Virtuous Pedophiles–History

In 2007, after coming to terms with his pedophilia interests, Nick Devin reached out to Mike Bailey, a Northwestern University professor who was an expert on scientific issues involving sexual matters. Mike was open-minded and had many beliefs that were outside the norm. But Mike had never entertained the idea that there might be many pedophiles committed to avoiding sexual contact with children, and he was intrigued.

Sometime around 2009 or 2010, Mike invited Nick to join a listserv that he hosted which was known as Sexnet. The listserv was primarily for researchers on sexual matters, though some journalists were members as well. To Nick’s surprise, the group was very welcoming and he became friendly with several leading experts on pedophilia such as James Cantor, Ray Blanchard, David Prescott, Michael Seto, Robin Wilson and Paul Federoff.

For peer support, Nick was referred to the b4u-act peer support group. Unfortunately he did not enjoy his time there. He thought they were unnecessarily antagonistic towards scientists who had befriended him. And, in fact, its leader Richard Kramer alienated these scientists by aggressively criticizing them for supporting the view that there is such a thing as pedophilic disorder, as expressed in the proposed DSM-5 TM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 2013).

Nick also believed that the societal hatred attached to pedophilia could be reduced if society could be made to understand the difference between pedophilia (sexual feelings towards children) and child sexual abuse (sexual acts with children). He felt that b4u-act could make progress in this area, but only if it unequivocally stated that adults should not have sexual contact with children. B4u-act refused to do this because it believed this would alienate pedophiles and also, Nick believed, because many of its leaders felt that adult-child sex should be legal. After trying to get B4U-Act to modify its views, Nick decided the differences were too great to be bridged, and in 2011 he resigned from the organization. He had an idea of creating a website that would express the reality that many pedophiles are dedicated to (and succeed at) avoiding sexual contact with children.

Nick began work on a website for this new organization in 2012. At the same time, Ethan Edwards, who had heard of Sexnet through acquaintances, reached out to Mike Bailey. Mike knew of Nick’s project, and being impressed with Ethan, put them in contact with one another. Nick sent Ethan an early version of the website and the collaboration began. Nick found Ethan’s input sufficiently valuable that he invited him in as a co-founder.

One important precursor to Virtuous Pedophiles was a 2010 column by Dan Savage. The column featured a letter from a pedophile who hadn’t offended and was sure he would not. The column is titled “Gold Star Pedophiles” (https://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=3347526). That was the original working title for the group, but Ethan in particular thought it was demeaning, the relevant gold stars being shiny worthless paper things that adults bestowed on gullible children for work well done. Nick objected to Ethan’s idea of “Celibate Pedophiles” because non-exclusive pedophiles are just child-celibate, not truly celibate. We finally chose “Virtuous Pedophiles”. The name has generated considerable controversy but on the whole has served us well.

We put most of our effort into the website before it went live in June of 2012. Without much initial thought, we also put together a support group. The website gained a considerable amount of positive press, including important support from James Cantor. Both Nick and Ethan gave several anonymous interviews and saw the membership in the support group increase.

A few other events in our VP history really stand out. In August 2014, Luke Malone wrote a wonderful article featuring one of our members, Adam. As a 16 year old, Adam had formed his own group for teenage pedophiles who were committed to not abusing children.

At the end of 2014, This American Life hosted an episode featuring Luke, Adam and the noted scientist Elizabeth Letourneau, who has become a friend of our group. This American Life is a weekly public radio show heard by 2.2 million people on more than 500 stations.

Todd Nickerson joined the group in 2014. In September 2015 he wrote a wonderful article in Salon called “I’m a Pedophile But Not a Monster”, which received a tremendous amount of interest. Todd has become our most effective spokesperson. An American progressive and political opinion and liberal news site, Salon was created in 1995 by David Talbot.

Over the years, Gary Gibson began attending ATSA meetings and assembled a list of friendly therapists. Gary regularly refers members to therapists and is also an effective public figure. Gary has long been one of our most valued VP members and is involved with Association for Sexual Abuse Prevention (ASAP); an international, multi-disciplinary organization dedicated to making society safer by preventing sexual abuse. (https:/asapinternational.org/)

Member Eddie Chambers was featured in two documentaries—The Pedophile Next Door (2014) and I, Pedophile (2016). Unfortunately, Eddie became disenchanted with the group and left, but his contributions while here were very important.

Every non-pedophile we mentioned is identified by their true name, as you would expect. Yet almost all pedophiles in our support group are known only by pseudonyms, including the two founders. Notable exceptions are the three just mentioned: Gary Gibson, Todd Nickerson, and Eddie Chambers, who in fact have helped our cause enormously by showing their faces in public, often at considerable personal cost.

Prior to our formation, ATSA (atsa.com), a highly regarded organization specializing in the treatment of sex offenders, had on its website this quote: “Although virtually all pedophiles are child molesters, not all child molesters are pedophiles.” After getting to know us, our allies in the scientific community challenged ATSA on this, and ATSA removed the quote. One measure of what VP and similar organizations have accomplished since 2011 is that we don’t think any serious scientist would write that quote any more or believe it. The thousands of us in this group make it pretty clear that “virtually all” is not the right descriptor for how many pedophiles molest children. It’s only one small step, but a significant one.

One unforeseen benefit of the peer support group has been as a vital source for scientific research on pedophilia. It is the first time that a substantial group of pedophiles has come together who have not offended and are not in favor of making adult-child sex legal and accepted. Scientists make posts inviting board members to participate in anonymous, online surveys. Several published papers have emerged and others are in progress. Also, novelists, playwrights, and film-makers often ask to join so they can portray pedophiles more accurately in their fictional work.

It has certainly been quite a ride. When we first started, we thought we would put up a website expressing our views and be done with it. Nine years later we have a support group that has been joined by about 6,600 people and has hosted over 270,000 posts. We feel that we have helped a lot of people come to terms with their pedophilia. We also think that we have helped some people to avoid sexual contact with children who were at risk. We have strong relationships with leading organizations, such as ATSA, Dunkelfeld, Stop It Now, and Stop-So, and with leading therapists and sexologists. We feel that we have helped to change the narrative around pedophilia, and that the hatred is a bit less than it was before we came on the scene. Many favorable articles have been written about our organization and non-offending pedophiles; we are unaware of any having been written before. If there were any, there were certainly very few.

Virtuous Pedophiles–Present

The closest we come to considering the RadPeds position is Nick’s experience at b4u-act that led him to quit that group and form VP. He believed that as long as b4u-act would not say adult-child sex was wrong, no one would listen to them. His intuition was that the difference was politically vital—the world would only take seriously pedophiles who said adult-child sex was wrong.

Sisyphus Mann and others recognize that this decision has been key for VP getting sympathetic media coverage and support. Although Nick’s judgment was political, it was not a matter of changing views for the purposes of political expediency. It was a matter of selection—Nick, I, and others who shared the belief that adult-child sex is wrong separated ourselves out and formed a new organization. A great many pedophiles have come out of the woodwork and joined up.

Mann says, “every syllable that VirPeds present to the general public must express an emollient acknowledgment of the wrongness of not only all child-adult intimacy, but also of the desire itself.”
Nowhere does VP say the desire itself is wrong. We do say that acting on the desire causes an unavoidable risk of harm, though we do not say it is inherently harmful either. The core VP view is that our desires do not make us evil—they make us unlucky.

Mann correctly cites the VP discussion forum rule prohibiting discussion of the idea that it is only societal attitudes that keep adult-child sex from being a good thing. He omits the next part of the rule, “Detailed discussion of why such activity is wrong is not allowed either, as it reopens the question for members who don’t want to do that. It’s fine to discuss these issues in other forums, but not here.”

I and other core VP members do in fact enter into respectful and spirited debate on these topics in other forums. The prohibition came partly from the practical observation (from B4U-Act) that when discussing such views is allowed, passionate adherents dominate the conversation and crowd out moderate and nuanced views.

Fundamentally, Nick’s core observation that MAPs will never get a hearing if they refuse to say adult-child sex is wrong extends past the founding of VP to all its subsequent activities. A discussion forum where this view is passionately challenged would undercut our identity. We also discovered that there are a great many MAPs who would never join a forum where such views are expressed. MAPs grew up hearing the same messages as everyone else—that pedophiles are evil. It is a revelation to them to consider that maybe they are not evil and could join a board where they can wrestle with that. But if it is a board where some people are saying adult-child sex is fundamentally OK, they want no part of that.

Mann explores the terms “anti-contact” and “pro-contact”, claiming that VP is not just against sexual contact with children, but against any sort of social contact. VP has never said that nor do we believe it.

He also says, “Conversely, the term ‘pro-contact’ insinuates that RadPeds want sex enforced on children for their (the children’s) own good.” I have never heard a VP suggest that Radpeds believe that. While the terms are not ideal, the sort of contact that is intended is “a desire that sexual contact between a willing child and adult should be legalized and accepted”. My attempt to avoid confusion is to start using the terms “anti-legalization” and “pro-legalization” instead.

Mann claims that VPs see their personal need to not engage children sexually as a terribly difficult struggle, in contrast to RadPeds. I have not seen anything, anywhere, that supports that conclusion. Our emphasis on no sexual contact is directed primarily at society at large, who tend to doubt we could be serious about that.

In the VP discussion forum the need to avoid adult-child sexual activity is the highest priority, in the sense that we would never suggest that a MAP continue on a course of action where we feel that they are likely to cross the line. But in fact, such discussions are very rare. The problems we discuss are centered on depression, the need to keep a big secret, and how to live a life without love or satisfying sex.

To his credit, Mann is willing to recognize good points to VP when he sees them. He recognizes that many MAPs start from a belief that they are monstrous and evil, and admits that accepting the VP message is a step forward for them.

Mann further states, “Has the success of VirPeds been detrimental to Radical Pedophilia? If one judges by the amount of bad feeling generated, or by some notional aspiration to unity in the pedophile world, then yes.” The bulk of the bad feeling has been directed towards VirPeds from the Radpeds, not the other way around.

While Nick and I felt the need to separate ourselves from the RadPeds position, we have not gone beyond stating our basic difference. From our web site, “Some pedophiles argue adult-child sex should be accepted, but we disagree and think their arguments should be greeted skeptically due to the self-interest involved.” That is not an expression of hatred or character assassination.

We are accused of a craven willingness to say anything we can to ingratiate ourselves with the public. This would surely include saying horrible things about RadPeds, trying to outdo the rest of society in condemnation. You will not find any such attacks in the VP website. We do not claim Radpeds would molest children if they could get away with it. We recognize that many Radpeds are people of principle and integrity.

We hope to convince those in the Radpeds camp to join us if they realize they agree with us—that is how Todd Nickerson came to join us. For those who don’t agree with us, we also welcome their support in achieving the goals we share, though it may seem like “half a loaf” to Radpeds. We are happy to work with those who don’t support us at all where we have common goals. Fighting trolls and vigilantes is an obvious one.

Mann is laudably realistic in noting that VirPeds have received public attention and a degree of sympathy that Radpeds have not (and would not have), and that perhaps Radpeds should wish us well.

However, Mann continues, “VirPeds have abandoned non-partisan forums for their own forum, where they can shelter from dissenting ideas.” I am not aware of anyone who used to participate in other forums who stopped doing so as a consequence of joining VP.

Certainly I have not shied away from debates with thoughtful and respectful RadPeds in any forum I am aware of. My own blog “Celibate Pedophiles” https://celibatepedos.virped.org/ analyzes a great many issues in depth, and I suspect 80% of its content would be viewed more favorably by Radpeds than by the public at large. Although the blog is not wildly popular, I have been heartened that some MAP activists have read it and found it thought-provoking and helpful.

In the view Radpeds have of us, the fact that the VP discussion forum does not allow discussion of whether adult-child sex should be legal and accepted looms too large. As noted in our history, the discussion forum was an afterthought. The most accurate portrayal of VP beliefs is to be found on the website, not the forum. The forum has taken on a life of its own. We admit members who have molested children (‘molested’ being a term they would accept) in the past if they are committed to never doing so in the future. Their past is surely far from virtuous, but we offer them support. We admit members who seem to be struggling mightily not to view child pornography. We allow members who aren’t passionately committed to adult-child sex always being wrong if they are not passionately committed to the opposite view. But as long as the forum is associated with Virtuous Pedophiles (the web site), we will not and cannot allow discussion of adult-child sex being Ok if only laws and attitudes changed.

Mann often deals with grand ideas, speaking of paradigms, dominant narratives, and cultural frames of reference. I don’t resonate with that way of thinking and view it with skepticism. But I am certainly open to discussing how things were in the past and in other places. One key observation I make is that in the West today, we hold girls in higher esteem than ever before. They are not to be married off at age 13 or used as play-things. We hope that they will postpone major decisions about their lives until they are at least 18, at which point they will have an education and a fair sense of all of life’s possibilities. If you think this is a good thing, it renders obsolete any comparisons to past societies where adults acted sexually with girls at younger ages.

In summary, Mann does recognize some positive accomplishments of Virtuous Pedophiles, but makes some grave errors in portraying our basic beliefs. I hope I have been able to correct those and also present the history and underlying vision of VP.

It is of interest here to note that Mann himself has since abandoned the RadPeds view, at least to the extent of feeling that transforming society to allow adult-child sex would necessarily cause worse harm.